Curse

Rhamia Darigaz · Oct 19, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

I am playing HB because I want to best people in battle with my hero team and I'm seeing people rage at me when they are the cheater, lol. Not once on the game box anywhere did it say, "Oh hey..every once in a while HB will be used as RR day and you should follow exploiters" No..it didn't.

Btw...You are raging? You are actually MAD? I Made you mad? Freakin awesome! Tell me more!!! Does it make you even angrier that I am a PvE player?

The fact that you are raging makes me lulx.

Again, I am playing totally legit. No matter what side I go on I play and attempt to best my enemy and capture shrines. I get the Blue team calling me names, now you are calling me names now! Whoo whee, i can't get away from you guys! Dang it!

I know a MOD is going to come along and either tidy my post or remove it. but they should lol at us arguing first and then PM me so we can talk.

I'm not doing anything wrong here. If i recall you are calling me an idiot or a grifer hell you even called me pathetic in a few posts and putting me down and I'm playing legit!

Good Game sucka

if you're looking for legit competitive play in HB today maybe my assumption that you aren't an idiot was a bit too generous.

also i never called you pathetic. i called you a griefer until i realized you're either an idiot or lying.

also the fact that you are a pve player made me pop a blood vessel

MrTev · Oct 19, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

By most people's standards, joining a UWSC and killing everyone is the same as griefing against the RR's.

Mangione · Oct 19, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

RR isn't cheating. If it was Anet would have put a stop to it long ago, not just made some ambigious statement in some hidden blog on an employee's userpage on a wiki that only a fraction of the userbase visits.

1) Cheating : Red Resigns is, officially, cheating, just like any other form of match manipulation. (See the Rules of Conduct for info.) I have been discussing the matter of how it will be addressed with the Live Team, but do not yet have an answer. -- Gaile 01:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Red_Resign_day

2) Ambiguous: again Red Resigns is, officially, cheating,[...] Gaile

3) Hidden Blog: "Sorry, I didn't read the fine print in the contract, it is so small I don't read it, so it has no value". LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Let the hypocrisy end.

Nice words, bro.

PS - Chris, I'm not alone

just to let you know, other fellow players that haven't got an account here on guru share the appreciation for you and Chocobo...

Owik Gall · Oct 19, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

I wonder how Anet will deal with this organized cheating on their game. They are already going to take out HB, but will they take the time to figure a way to punish most, if not all who participated in RR. So far, I've seen no responses of RR even from Anet, so it leaves their feelings for this questionable. Yes, technically it's against their rules and we would expect them to be irate with the mass organized cheating event. Yet, the lack of response does draw suspicions about them caring about this. Are there even any options they have on punishing the participants, anyways? So far it seems the removal of HB is all they might be planning to do about this.

dansamy · Oct 19, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

I've played and I've resigned. It doesn't really matter to me. It's an easy Zquest objective to meet.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 19, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

1) Cheating : Red Resigns is, officially, cheating, just like any other form of match manipulation. (See the Rules of Conduct for info.) I have been discussing the matter of how it will be addressed with the Live Team, but do not yet have an answer. -- Gaile 01:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Red_Resign_day

2) Ambiguous: again Red Resigns is, officially, cheating,[...] Gaile

3) Hidden Blog: "Sorry, I didn't read the fine print in the contract, it is so small I don't read it, so it has no value". LOL.

You know laymen are often the worst "paragraph riders". (Dunno if that is an expression in english so bear with me)

Let me put it into perspective. Leaving in RA can also be considered 'cheating' by your definition. Anet has seen fit to punish such behaviour with a 10 minute time-out. When the same occurs in HB your solution is a permanent ban?

And yes, it's quite ambiguous that statement you quote. What I interpret is this: "yes, we don't like what's going on but we don't deem it important enough to deal with it." Anet could have prevented the majority of the "crime" by removing the zbounty or removing HB right after the promised "last mAT". It would be very questionable if they willingly let HB continue knowing it would certainly lead to more "crime" and then decided to punish the perpetrators. From a judicial point of view that would be very close to illegal provocation and certainly of questionable ethics.

Lihinel · Oct 19, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

1.) Ban the rr for match manipulation, ban normal players for griefing, ban anyone not playing hb at all for beeing out of touch with the game
2.) Close down GW1 Servers
3.) ???
4.) Profit

Bob Slydell · Oct 19, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Down with the RRetards

Dzjudz · Oct 19, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

I think they aren't doing anything against rr-day as a form of z-key farming to compensate for the last months of XTH absence :s.

Red Apple · Oct 19, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihinel

1.) Ban the rr for match manipulation, ban normal players for griefing, ban anyone not playing hb at all for beeing out of touch with the game
2.) Close down GW1 Servers
3.) ???
4.) Profit

I would also add -1) Start charging money for GuildWars.

Cammy · Oct 19, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Why do people care?

If both people abide by RR, both profit.

If blue doesn't resign, red leaves and gets another match to minimize time wasted and blue gets +rating and +commander point.

If red stays and fights then whoever is better wins.

Only real idiocy is when red demands blue resign and QQs when s/he doesn't. But then those people are retards who don't understand they can leave and get another match with a RR person in the time it takes to rage at blue.

Mangione · Oct 19, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Let me put it into perspective. Leaving in RA can also be considered 'cheating' by your definition. Anet has seen fit to punish such behaviour with a 10 minute time-out. When the same occurs in HB your solution is a permanent ban?

And yes, it's quite ambiguous that statement you quote. What I interpret is this: "yes, we don't like what's going on but we don't deem it important enough to deal with it."

How can it be ambiguous?
They didn't write "we dont' like what's going on", you can interpret those words as you like, but they used the exact words officially and cheating. There is no debate on that, unless someone wants to grasp at straws.
If I'm told by an arbiter or by those that make the rules that something is cheating, I don't see it as ambiguous, instead I follow the rules set by the arbiter.
The fact that there is no punishment nor any other consequence, maybe because a lot of people decided to do RR, doesn't make it less "cheaty" or "unofficial" or debatable.

Also, my solution is not a permanent ban, I don't remember writing something like that.
It is solely Anet's decision on how they will address the issue.

This RR is exploiting a game mechanic to get a fast amount of money, in a way that wasn't intended, and in a way that has been defined by the same Anet as "cheating".
In the past they treated rule breaches accordingly to severity: they perma-banned those who exploited the Mallyx outpost, temp-banned for 15 days the HFFF botters, stripped of their gold cape a guild involved in match manipulation.

I decided to stay clean and not enter any HB during the RR-days, because I'm following the rules, and so did many other players I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Anet could have prevented the majority of the "crime" by removing the zbounty or removing HB right after the promised "last mAT". It would be very questionable if they willingly let HB continue knowing it would certainly lead to more "crime" and then decided to punish the perpetrators.

I agree.
But at the same time this will mean that it is allowed to do what Anet itself defines as "cheating" on its own servers without any consequence as long as big numbers are involved.

"oh hay dude, I RR-ed all day and got 500k and 100zkeys. And you? Nothing? OLOLOLOLOLOL"
Rewarding cheaters.
A bad sign IMO.

Chocobo1 · Oct 19, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Some of these posts make me cringe.... I wasn't griefing the kid, I should be allowed to play HB on Zquest day without having to take part in this failfest. The fact that you think it is griefing and is a bad thing to do is a joke.

Soldat · Oct 19, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

This is too funny...

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 19, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mangione

How can it be ambiguous?
They didn't write "we dont' like what's going on", you can interpret those words as you like, but they used the exact words officially and cheating. There is no debate on that, unless someone wants to grasp at straws.
If I'm told by an arbiter or by those that make the rules that something is cheating, I don't see it as ambiguous, instead I follow the rules set by the arbiter.
The fact that there is no punishment nor any other consequence, maybe because a lot of people decided to do RR, doesn't make it less "cheaty" or "unofficial" or debatable.

The fact that someone had to ask on that blog/userpage tells me that seeing this RR thing as cheating is not as apparent as you/Anet want it to be.

I don't think all of the RR people are even aware that what they're doing is against any rules. Their actions certainly aren't harming anyone, everyone seems to profit and they all cheer happily "Happy RR day! :-))".
An important factor in penal law is that people need to be aware of doing something illegal. That is not to say you can plead innocence just because you haven't read up on the law. It's everyone's responsibility to know the rules that apply to them, but if the rule gets vague enough you can't sentence people based on it. At least in my country there is an unwritten rule of aquittal for actions that don't violate "the common sense of justice"(my translation, probably not 100% accurate). My point is that whether this is "really" against the rules or not, Anet really shouldn't exercise authority based on it because a large amount of the participants probably aren't aware that they are doing something harmful. If they want to make the rules more clear or change how the system works for the future, that's fine. Then they can ban to their hearts content. In this case Anet had plenty opportunity to "nip it in the bud"(There's a saying something like that, right?), but failed to do so.

Quote:

Rewarding cheaters.
A bad sign IMO.

Agreed.
I won't shed many tears if Anet goes overboard on this one, but I can't help but think how incredibly poor Anet handled this thing.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 19, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Some of these posts make me cringe.... I wasn't griefing the kid, I should be allowed to play HB on Zquest day without having to take part in this failfest. The fact that you think it is griefing and is a bad thing to do is a joke.

I don't play HB so correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing "legit" wouldn't your rank be high enough to not face the RR crowd?

It seems to me that all you griefers would get a rank higher than the pve RR crowd and face each other instead. That way you get to run around with your heroes and play HB the way it's supposed to be - the "fun" way?

Coming on guru posting screens of people in despair, trying to be funny at their expense and even bragging about beating a sabway guy is a bit...
It's wonderful that you take it upon yourselves to police the arena and teach the pve'ers some pvp but tbh I'm not interested in how many people you have managed to aggravate today.

Mr. Undisclosed · Oct 19, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I don't play HB so correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing "legit" wouldn't your rank be high enough to not face the RR crowd?

It seems to me that all you griefers would get a rank higher than the pve RR crowd and face each other instead. That way you get to run around with your heroes and play HB the way it's supposed to be - the "fun" way?

Coming on guru posting screens of people in despair, trying to be funny at their expense and even bragging about beating a sabway guy is a bit...
It's wonderful that you take it upon yourselves to police the arena and teach the pve'ers some pvp but tbh I'm not interested in how many people you have managed to aggravate today.

Well there are people who don't tank their rating a bit before they do this but I can't imagine many people staying high enough to face people that actually play. It makes me laugh these guys bragging about beating people who expect them to resign when the reason they're probably facing them is because they're terrible and have a sucky rating. Anyway the rest of your post is well said

loliloli · Oct 19, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I think this will end up like at the time that there was a 'glitch' inside Urgoz, years ago. When there was no easy way of getting Zodiac weapons other than going Urgoz and opening the chests inside of it or killing everything hoping for a gold zodiac weapon to drop.

There was no final chest for completing it too, so getting a perf moded Zodiac weapon could be easily sold by 100k + because of the rarity.

What happened in there?
The first aggro that pops up in front of you is a group of Hoping Vampires, and they use a monster skill to suicide them over the players. Thing is, even using this skill, it was considered like if the players in the area killed them, so after they suicide, items were dropped. GOLD items, Zodiac ones.

Players made loads of money selling perf Zodiac Weapons over 100k+, made a ton of points for the Wisdom Title, got loads of Black Dye..

As soon as Arena Net found out about this, they said that this was considered cheating, that would lead to bans and that it was against the game rules.

Sooooo, what happened then?
- Nothing, except that they nerfed the Hoping Vampires, they don't drop anything now.
- People made a lot of money due to the massive farm over the 'glitch'.
- I really don't know anyone who got banned by doing this at that time. Many of my friends that did that at that time, are still playing GW, no warning no ban, nothing.
- This really screwed up the Zodiac weapon prices but, as we all know, there's almost no item in game that can be dropped and really be considered rare anymore.

GW is a grinding game now, everyone is after titles and stuff for Hall of Monuments. Some achievements requires a lot of money, which is hard to make it without selling rare weapons (cause they aren't rare anymore), or farming something over and over (FoWSC, UWSC, SoOSC, KathSC, Dungeon Runs ..etc.) to raise money for them without taking a life time.

I'm not saying that this behavior is right, I'm just sharing my thought of this being a consequence of the Title Grind-mania that Anet created among the players to make them play GW over and over.

So, imo, this will end up like the Urgoz 'glitch'..
- Nerf, so no one gets any profit of it anymore
- Remove HB not only because of 'RR Day', but because it's dead on the other days
- .... and move on, because after all, people will forget in a while..

Some people are even talking about RR Day for AB.. it wouldnt turn in Z-Keys so fast but, Luxon and Kurz title massive farming.. so.. I guess a solution for this.... might take a while.

Chocobo1 · Oct 19, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I don't play HB so correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are playing "legit" wouldn't your rank be high enough to not face the RR crowd?

It seems to me that all you griefers would get a rank higher than the pve RR crowd and face each other instead. That way you get to run around with your heroes and play HB the way it's supposed to be - the "fun" way?

Coming on guru posting screens of people in despair, trying to be funny at their expense and even bragging about beating a sabway guy is a bit...
It's wonderful that you take it upon yourselves to police the arena and teach the pve'ers some pvp but tbh I'm not interested in how many people you have managed to aggravate today.

Ok let me clarify:

The point of me posting those screenies was to show that all RR day does is reward people who don't deserve to be rewarded. It's like giving the guy who came last in a race $10,000 while the winner only gets $100. It's just not right. I never was trying to be funny about it, It was more pity for the whole expectation of me to resign against a guy who couldn't tell a cap point from his asshole.

Also, I'm not that great at HB, so my rank goes up and down depending on who I fight. So I sometimes fight with people who want to play, and most of the time I fight against RR people, probably because 95% of the people in HB on Z-Quest day are trying to do RR.

Vazze · Oct 19, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

You don't understand, this is a giant experiment and you are the labrats. Anet is watching and making notes on how many ppl, when and how long jumped on the bandwagon, who did not and why not, how the inflation is accelerating, etc.

Or the whole live-team is on vacation because Hawaii is dirt cheap these days, and there is only a technician guy at the helm ... who is RRing all day long.